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	Comments on: 3 ways to find soul-rest even in the midst of mess	</title>
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	<link>https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/</link>
	<description>teaching women to think on true things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Lara Gibson Williams		</title>
		<link>https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2042</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lara Gibson Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 02:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ToOverflowing.com/?p=5469#comment-2042</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2038&quot;&gt;Jenn&lt;/a&gt;.

Hi friend. It might sound strange, but I&#039;m encouraged that you want to bring such difficult issues to the table. It&#039;s much easier to just turn the other way. After I first read your comment I started praying and thinking and praying and thinking. And a few things came to my (finite)  mind.

First, I wouldn&#039;t describe the situations you mentioned as &quot;messy.&quot; I would describe them as horrific evil. I know it&#039;s just terminology, but I am aware that my blog audience is mostly made up of believers from the first world. And most of us have &quot;messy&quot; lives rather than horrifically evil lives -- not to diminish the suffering we also go through. But if I were to stand face to face with someone in that kind of situation, I definitely wouldn&#039;t call their situation &quot;messy.&quot;

Second, if I were to stand before someone in that kind of situation, the last thing I would want to throw at them is trite explanations as to the why of their suffering. When any of us are in the depths of despair, the last thing we want is someone to preach at us. There&#039;s a time to simply weep with those who weep.

Third, all of that said, we have to begin somewhere. And as a believer I have to begin with what God says about Himself and what He says about suffering. If I begin with the horrific evil that I see in the world, then I will always end up with an erroneous view of God. Beginning with Him doesn&#039;t mean I will understand everything, but it does mean that my foundation will be secure and that even the smallest glimmer of hope can rise.

So when I begin with Him I know that New Testament writers did seem to imply that there was joy to be experienced even in the midst of suffering. They were often writing to the persecuted church -- people being tortured and killed for declaring their faith. 

It doesn&#039;t mean that they taught to blindly act like the trials were easy or even that the trial itself was joyful. Rather, *when a believer* falls into a trial we can trust that the Sovereign God did allow that with purpose. (God doesn&#039;t follow behind the enemy trying to clean up his destruction.) The joy for the believer comes in that inner room of intimacy with God where deep faith is refined. And more often than not it comes with many tears and prolonged endurance.

Now we get to the specific situation you mentioned. If we begin with God and what He teaches us about suffering, then we have to also trust that He faithfully ministers with His immeasurable grace to His children -- God help us, even the ones that might be in some horrifically evil situation.

I don&#039;t get that. I can&#039;t comprehend that. But I have to begin with Him and His truth. Otherwise I fall into the camp that says evil wins. And I can&#039;t go there. 

God does give people over to their evil desires. And he does release man to their fleshly passions. But He also faithfully hears the cries of His own. He moves hearts to be the feet and hands of His redeeming love. He sends angels to minister to the hurting. He doesn&#039;t look away.

We will never be able to understand, but we have to start with Him. And once we start with Him and after seeing the horrific evil, we ask Him to use us as He wills to bring love to those in desperately wicked situations.

I&#039;m not claiming a nice and neat explanation; I just know where I have to begin. You are a precious sister. And He has broken your heart on purpose. Praying you faithfully follow where He will faithfully lead. Much love.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2038">Jenn</a>.</p>
<p>Hi friend. It might sound strange, but I&#8217;m encouraged that you want to bring such difficult issues to the table. It&#8217;s much easier to just turn the other way. After I first read your comment I started praying and thinking and praying and thinking. And a few things came to my (finite)  mind.</p>
<p>First, I wouldn&#8217;t describe the situations you mentioned as &#8220;messy.&#8221; I would describe them as horrific evil. I know it&#8217;s just terminology, but I am aware that my blog audience is mostly made up of believers from the first world. And most of us have &#8220;messy&#8221; lives rather than horrifically evil lives &#8212; not to diminish the suffering we also go through. But if I were to stand face to face with someone in that kind of situation, I definitely wouldn&#8217;t call their situation &#8220;messy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Second, if I were to stand before someone in that kind of situation, the last thing I would want to throw at them is trite explanations as to the why of their suffering. When any of us are in the depths of despair, the last thing we want is someone to preach at us. There&#8217;s a time to simply weep with those who weep.</p>
<p>Third, all of that said, we have to begin somewhere. And as a believer I have to begin with what God says about Himself and what He says about suffering. If I begin with the horrific evil that I see in the world, then I will always end up with an erroneous view of God. Beginning with Him doesn&#8217;t mean I will understand everything, but it does mean that my foundation will be secure and that even the smallest glimmer of hope can rise.</p>
<p>So when I begin with Him I know that New Testament writers did seem to imply that there was joy to be experienced even in the midst of suffering. They were often writing to the persecuted church &#8212; people being tortured and killed for declaring their faith. </p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t mean that they taught to blindly act like the trials were easy or even that the trial itself was joyful. Rather, *when a believer* falls into a trial we can trust that the Sovereign God did allow that with purpose. (God doesn&#8217;t follow behind the enemy trying to clean up his destruction.) The joy for the believer comes in that inner room of intimacy with God where deep faith is refined. And more often than not it comes with many tears and prolonged endurance.</p>
<p>Now we get to the specific situation you mentioned. If we begin with God and what He teaches us about suffering, then we have to also trust that He faithfully ministers with His immeasurable grace to His children &#8212; God help us, even the ones that might be in some horrifically evil situation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get that. I can&#8217;t comprehend that. But I have to begin with Him and His truth. Otherwise I fall into the camp that says evil wins. And I can&#8217;t go there. </p>
<p>God does give people over to their evil desires. And he does release man to their fleshly passions. But He also faithfully hears the cries of His own. He moves hearts to be the feet and hands of His redeeming love. He sends angels to minister to the hurting. He doesn&#8217;t look away.</p>
<p>We will never be able to understand, but we have to start with Him. And once we start with Him and after seeing the horrific evil, we ask Him to use us as He wills to bring love to those in desperately wicked situations.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not claiming a nice and neat explanation; I just know where I have to begin. You are a precious sister. And He has broken your heart on purpose. Praying you faithfully follow where He will faithfully lead. Much love.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenn		</title>
		<link>https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2038</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 15:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ToOverflowing.com/?p=5469#comment-2038</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like this post, as I do all of your stuff :) One thing I struggle with in number 2 comes from my working volunteering with human trafficking.  I think a lot of times it is easy to apply this approach to &quot;first world&quot; problems.  Or our &quot;modern daily struggles&quot;, but I often think....what if I was 12 and being held in a brothel in Thailand and sold to men 20 times a day...would I give thanks for that trial?  Is that even what scripture would tell me to do?  

Sorry to get heavy, but I struggle with this every time I read this kind of stuff. The advice certainly applies to me personally...and I have had trials....but nothing like what millions suffer with around our world daily.  I just wonder sometimes how I would feel in those situations.

Ultimately I know it is about trust, and I do trust Him fully.  I just wonder more about our approach to how we tell people to deal with trials....there are many, millions even, that this great advice applies to....I think we just often don&#039;t think of the really severe issues being faced by people elsewhere.  Or maybe we do, and this would still apply and I don&#039;t know because I am not in that position.

Sorry for the ramble....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this post, as I do all of your stuff 🙂 One thing I struggle with in number 2 comes from my working volunteering with human trafficking.  I think a lot of times it is easy to apply this approach to &#8220;first world&#8221; problems.  Or our &#8220;modern daily struggles&#8221;, but I often think&#8230;.what if I was 12 and being held in a brothel in Thailand and sold to men 20 times a day&#8230;would I give thanks for that trial?  Is that even what scripture would tell me to do?  </p>
<p>Sorry to get heavy, but I struggle with this every time I read this kind of stuff. The advice certainly applies to me personally&#8230;and I have had trials&#8230;.but nothing like what millions suffer with around our world daily.  I just wonder sometimes how I would feel in those situations.</p>
<p>Ultimately I know it is about trust, and I do trust Him fully.  I just wonder more about our approach to how we tell people to deal with trials&#8230;.there are many, millions even, that this great advice applies to&#8230;.I think we just often don&#8217;t think of the really severe issues being faced by people elsewhere.  Or maybe we do, and this would still apply and I don&#8217;t know because I am not in that position.</p>
<p>Sorry for the ramble&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: StefanieYoungBrown		</title>
		<link>https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2018</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StefanieYoungBrown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ToOverflowing.com/?p=5469#comment-2018</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2017&quot;&gt;Lara Gibson Williams&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you, Lara!! Needed and appreciated.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2017">Lara Gibson Williams</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you, Lara!! Needed and appreciated.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lara Gibson Williams		</title>
		<link>https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2017</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lara Gibson Williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ToOverflowing.com/?p=5469#comment-2017</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2016&quot;&gt;StefanieYoungBrown&lt;/a&gt;.

Praying for you! &quot;Intentional and purposeful&quot; --two important choices. Trusting that He will guide you, friend.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2016">StefanieYoungBrown</a>.</p>
<p>Praying for you! &#8220;Intentional and purposeful&#8221; &#8211;two important choices. Trusting that He will guide you, friend.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: StefanieYoungBrown		</title>
		<link>https://tooverflowing.com/3-ways-to-find-soul-rest-even-in-the-midst-of-mess/#comment-2016</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StefanieYoungBrown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 11:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ToOverflowing.com/?p=5469#comment-2016</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How timely! We&#039;re in a &quot;messy situation&quot; right now (messier than before).  My nature is to hold on tightly to what is around me, afraid I&#039;ll lose it if I let go.  I&#039;m intentionally and purposefully striving to keep my hands open and my heart clean.  It&#039;s OK to &quot;feel&quot;, but I simply cannot live on my feelings.

Thank you, my friend!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How timely! We&#8217;re in a &#8220;messy situation&#8221; right now (messier than before).  My nature is to hold on tightly to what is around me, afraid I&#8217;ll lose it if I let go.  I&#8217;m intentionally and purposefully striving to keep my hands open and my heart clean.  It&#8217;s OK to &#8220;feel&#8221;, but I simply cannot live on my feelings.</p>
<p>Thank you, my friend!</p>
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